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Topic: Bitrate peeling

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	Peeling the Apple: An iPod analysis (Emotion)
		Storing files at 128 kilobits/second (kbps) bitrate will yield a sound that produces near-CD quality with such accuracy that most listeners will be unable to perceive a difference.
		In either case, the relationship between sound produced and storage capacity used is superior to CD format with 128kbps yielding a ratio of 11:1 and 192kbps yielding roughly 7:1.
		Important note is that when songs-per device storage capacity is cited, the 128kbps format is the bitrate standard most often referenced.
	www.unc.edu /~jlomax/assignments/emotion.htm (786 words)

	Hydrogenaudio Forums -> Ogg bitrate peeling
		'peel' has its target bitrate (15000 by default) hardcoded in its peel.c and expects input from stdin and gives output to stdout.
		At the moment bitrate peeling is clearly inferior to transcoding, but it is possible and will hopefully be improved.
		Bitrate peeling can be usable for fine adjusting bitrate and to avoid to store a douzen of streams depending
	hydrogenaudio.org /forums/index.php?showtopic=2658&view=getlastpost (1327 words)

	PeerCast :: View topic - GREAT IDEA??
		I think Vorbis has something called "bitrate pealing", that allows a stream to be reduced to a lower bitrate without re encoding it.
		But maybe this Vorbis "bitrate peeling" could do both, i mean make a layered stream that would be easier to transit plitted, even through 56k modems AND at the same time contain some audible data for low bandwith listeners.
		Bitrate peeling allows for lowering the bitrate of a stream or file on the fly without re-encoding.
	www.peercast.org /forum/viewtopic.php?t=89&highlight= (1041 words)

	Read about Vorbis at WorldVillage Encyclopedia. Research Vorbis and learn about Vorbis here! (Site not responding. Last check: )
		CD audio sample frequency) stereo input, the current encoder as of September 2004 will produce output from 45 to 500 kbit/s depending on the specified quality setting.
		The noise floor approach gives Vorbis its characteristic analog noise -like failure mode (when the bitrate is too low to encode the audio without perceptible loss), which many people find more pleasing to the ears than metallic warbling as in MP3.
		bitrate peeling for reducing the bitrate of already encoded files, although no encoder has implemented this feature
	encyclopedia.worldvillage.com /s/b/Vorbis (1496 words)

	Hardware Ogg Vorbis support - Topic Ars OpenForum
		Major features include: Gapless tracks, Bitrate Peeling for on-the-fly bitrate lowering without re-encoding, a superior file format and a mathematical - perceptual encoding model which allows plenty of room for improvement for years to come without destroying backwards compatibility.
		And to top it all off, it is released under the GNU Lesser General Public License so it is patent-free and friendly to code hackers and corporations alike.
		It's not that vorbis blows mp3 away at the bitrates which you use, it's that it allows you to use much lower bitrates for simelar sound quality.
	episteme.arstechnica.com /eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/174096756/m/1570917355 (3975 words)

	Neowin.net > iTunes 4 released to ADC members (Site not responding. Last check: )
		Bitrate peeling is probably one of the most impressive features of Ogg.
		Real just recodes it for specific bitrates, with Ogg you could have a high bitrate version on your PC and peel it down to a lower quality for a portable player without resampling.
		it is pretty common knowledge in the audio codec world that the higher bitrate you go in ogg the worse it is. ogg is good for low bitrate applications, in fact it is the best codec out there if you stay to 96kbps or lower.
	neowin.net /forum/lofiversion/index.php/.../><br/t70378.html (1592 words)

	Vorbis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
		Given 44.1 kHz (standard CD audio sampling frequency) stereo input, the current encoder as of September 2004 will produce output from 45 to 500 kbit/s (32 to 500 kbit/s for aoTuV tunings) depending on the specified quality setting.
		Quality settings run from -1 to 10 (-2 to 10 for aoTuV tunings) and are an arbitrary metric; files encoded at -q5, for example, should have the same quality of sound in all versions of the encoder, but newer versions should be able to achieve that quality with a lower bitrate.
		For comparison, it is commonly felt that MP3 reaches transparency at around 192 kbit/s (except for the frequency range, which only occasionally exceeds 16kHz), resulting in larger file sizes for the same sound quality.
	en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Vorbis (2200 words)

	Re-encoding...mp3-to-mp3 question.... - Hydrogenaudio Forums
		different bitrates, some are encoded differently etc (lame.
		Bitrate peeling is simply not possible with mp3.
		The only format that I know of that "has" a bitrate peeling option is Vorbis.
	www.hydrogenaudio.org /forums/index.php?showtopic=18561&view=old (743 words)

	Ogg Vorbis--Open, Free Audio--Set Your Media Free \| Linux Journal
		Bitrate peeling allows for lowering the bitrate of a stream or file on the fly without re-encoding.
		It was limited to one bitrate, but it already had plug-ins for most players as well as support on many platforms.
		Five bitrates from 128kbps to 350KBps and several quality improvements were the main features.
	www.linuxjournal.com /article.php?sid=4416 (2817 words)

	Ogg Help Forums :: View topic - Better audio compression with long-range correlations (Site not responding. Last check: )
		And Bitrate Peeling is not even similar in the way this works, so you are comparing apples and oranges.
		The way Bitrate Peeling reduces file size or bitrate is by also REDUCING the quality by simply chopping the bits off.
		The way this idea works is by reducing the file size or bitrate while KEEPING the quality, and does that by reusing and reorganizing bits, without chopping them off.
	www.ogghelp.com /ogg/board/viewtopic.php?t=205 (755 words)

	DVD Talk Forum - Lowering the bitrate of ALREADY EXISTING MP3s?
		If it does it is variable bitrate encoding which means that the encoder tries to determine where the bits are needed most in order to preserve the original sound quality as much as possible.
		One of the things they've been trying to do with OGG for a long time is called bitrate peeling.
		The idea is that you encode at a high bitrate in such a way that you can peel off chunks to get a lower quality sound, but at a lower bitrate.
	www.dvdtalk.com /forum/printthread.php?t=404456 (1498 words)

	An Introduction to Compressed Audio with Ogg Vorbis
		In fact, the Ogg Vorbis format encoders don't normally consider bitrate at all (the default mode of operation is VBR), instead using a "quality" rating, which ranges from -1 to 10 in increments of 0.01 or so.
		Each quality setting results in a rough average bitrate for a piece of average music, but this is a by-product of how the encoder has been tuned; the encoder does not aim at any particular bitrate.
		Ogg Vorbis files also potentially support "bitrate peeling", which means you could produce a lower bitrate file from a higher bitrate file without re-encoding and at the same quality as if you'd encoded the file directly into the lower bitrate from the original file.
	grahammitchell.com /writings/vorbis_intro.html (4653 words)

	Vorbis (Site not responding. Last check: )
		For comparison, it is commonly felt that MP3 reaches transparency at around 192kps, resulting in larger file sizes for the same sound quality.
		The vorbis format supports bitrate peeling for reducing the bitrate of already encoded files, although no encoder has implemented this feature yet.
		Vorbis's specifications are in the public domain (Xiph.org reserves the right to set the Vorbis specification and certify compliance).
	hallencyclopedia.com /Vorbis (1565 words)

	BeBits - Vorbis Tools - Version History
		Bitrate support is still enabled but the Quality setting should give files
		peeling which means that the bitrate for a file can be reduced by
		New Bitrate Menu, supports the same bitrates as the command line option.
	www.bebits.com /appver/1058 (1300 words)

	Info and facts on 'Vorbis' (Site not responding. Last check: )
		Given 44.1 kHz (standard CD (A debt instrument issued by a bank; usually pays interest) audio sample frequency) stereo input, the current encoder as of September 2004 will produce output from 45 to 500 kbit/s depending on the specified quality setting.
		The resulting frequency-domain data is broken into noise floor and residue components, and then quantized (additional info and facts about quantized) and entropy coded (additional info and facts about entropy coded) using a codebook-based vector quantization (additional info and facts about vector quantization) algorithm.
		Knowledge of Vorbis's specifications is in the public domain (Property rights that are held by the public at large).
	www.absoluteastronomy.com /encyclopedia/v/vo/vorbis.htm (2485 words)

	www.Arielext.org (Site not responding. Last check: )
		Those familiar with id3 tags for mp3 files will be well aware of their limitations; Ogg Vorbis features a flexible tagging standard which allows complete customization of tags for a given file, including user-defined tags (like "remixed by" or whatever you like).
		Ogg Vorbis files support "bitrate peeling", which means you can produce a lower bitrate file from a higher bitrate file without re-encoding and at the same quality as if you'd encoded the file directly into the lower bitrate from the original file.
		Good peeling support requires the encoder to be redesigned to store data in a more peeler-friendly (but still backwards-compatible) format.
	mp3cdbrowser.sourceforge.net /v10/vorbis.html (510 words)

	Easiest (FREE?!) prog for "1-click" downsampling of MP3s? - Topic Ars OpenForum
		You might think it would reencode the output files, but the wildcard is matched when the for statement is interpreted.
		The arguments to lame simply tell it to take an MP3 source, encode it at 160 Kbps average bitrate, and give the output file the same name with a " [low quality]" tag at the end.
		Peeling is implemented, but hinting is not; until the encoder indicates in a file which data are the most significant, bitrate peeling will have little practical use.
	episteme.arstechnica.com /eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/99609816/m/7940947545 (696 words)

	[vorbis] bitrate peeling
		The last time I played with Real's SureStream[tm], it created the various bitrates at encoding time and embedded them all in one big file.
		Realserver then picked the appropriate stream from that huge file and sent it to the client.
		That's been a few years since I tried that, however, I doubt they changed that to "real peeling" since.
	lists.xiph.org /pipermail/vorbis/2002-November/021655.html (193 words)

	Bounties - XiphWiki
		A 25%-or-better reduction in bitrate for quality levels -1, 0, 1 on a reasonable testsuite while maintaining qualitative equivilence (or improvement) in community testing.
		Note: a bounty for this project has been posted on launchpad.net: Add bitrate peeling to the standard libvorbis encoding library (https://launchpad.net/bounties/ogg-vorbis-bitrate-peeling).
		Ogg Vorbis bitrate peeling has been a topic brought up time and again to combat MP3 enthusiasts.
	wiki.xiph.org /index.php/Bounties (695 words)

	[No title] (Site not responding. Last check: )
		The first header indicates the sample and bitrates, the number of channels and the version of the Vorbis encoder used.
		The changes may be due to different metadata or codebooks as well as different bitrates of the stream.
		A mechanism for dynamically downgrading the stream, known as bitrate peeling, will allow for a graceful backing off of the stream bitrate.
	www.xiph.org /vorbis/doc/draft-kerr-avt-vorbis-rtp-03.txt (3724 words)

	MisticRiver :: For iriver Enthusiasts - Is Ogg any good? (Site not responding. Last check: )
		I used a bitrate when describing and comparing Ogg Vorbis to MP3 - but it's good to note that Ogg Vorbis, IIRC, is really tuned for VBR and does VBR by default - so a file with a 128kbit bitrate usually means a 128kbit average bitrate - which could mean something like "64kbit to 192kbit."
		Its also dependant on the bitrate you use though since higher bitrrates means the processor has more data to process per second of sound.
		Also, the peeling will not allow a clean transcode from one codec to another, just a high bitrate ogg to a lower bitrate.
	www.misticriver.net /printthread.php?t=10745 (1440 words)

	Ogg Help Forums :: View topic - Comparison of Ogg, HE AAC, mp3PRO and WMA9 at 32kbps (Site not responding. Last check: )
		I have just compared all of these codecs at 32kbps, which is probably the most common bitrate for real-time playback of "quality" stereo audio over a 56k dial-up connection.
		The only bitrates at which WMA sounds best are very low, 4-20kbps, where Microsoft is using ACELP.net, and I don't think other codecs can beat that one yet (at those bitrates).
		The only reasons I haven't mentioned it is that I was focusing here on the lower bitrates, and because I have found that 96kbps or quality setting of 2 gives a very good quality, and shows no need for higher setting (most of the time).
	ogghelp.com /ogg/board/viewtopic.php?t=204 (3272 words)

	Hydrogenaudio Forums > best ultra low br solution? (Site not responding. Last check: )
		Feb 2 2002, 10:45 PM WMA is overall not bad at low bitrates, but I find the sort of artifacts that it makes (layman's terms: swishy and metallic-sounding) to be very annoying.
		Currently if I want to make a really low bitrate file, say to email to a friend as a joke, I'll use the Fraunhofer mp3 codec ("advanced") which is apparently installed as a windows functionary.
		I'd probably hold out for Vorbis bitrate peeling (see the FAQ on for more info)http://www.vorbis.com/, but if you need a more immediate streaming solution, encode using RealAudio at 20kbps, or WMA, and investigate HTTP streaming.
	ha.morbo.org /forums/lofiversion/index.php/t928.html (1653 words)

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