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Catholic Answers Forums - Scott Hahn and "Prima Scriptura"? Prima Scriptura is excluded by "Dei Verbum," which iterates and reiterates the conjoining of Tradition plus Holy Scripture; each acting as a check and rule on each other; all as interpreted through the divinely-guided teaching of Peter and the Apostles. Prima Scriptura is a theological absurdity, as the teaching of the apostolic Church predated any consigning of the Gospel to writing. July 12, 2004 06:54 AM The underlying assumption of prima Scriptura must be examined: that Tradition as it was initially transmitted before the death of the last was inspired, but Tradition as we receive it today is not inspired. forums.catholic.com /printthread.php?t=7359   (12708 words)

Debate with Catholic on Sola Scriptura (Riggs Vs Lopez) Sola scriptura followers take it upon themselves to privately interpret God's word, as did Korah and his rebels, who were condemned by God. Sola scriptura has led to a plethora of competing denominations, all claiming to have the truth, and thus forming their own tradition. In fact if the Sola Scriptura principle was in place, it is more likely that circumcision would have been reimposed as Gen. 17 says that the covenant with circumcision was to last forever. www.bible.ca /cath-debate-riggs-lopez.htm   (21389 words)

Prima Scriptura - WELS.net From descriptions on various websites, Prima Scriptura essentially means Scripture out weighs Tradition. There is no other source of doctrine that can stand along side of or even under Scripture as a source of doctrine as a second source of doctrine. Prima Scriptura is wrong when it implies that there can be any second source of doctrine which adds to Scripture. www.wels.net /cgi-bin/site.pl?1518&cuQA_qaID=1&cuTopic_topicID=41&cuItem_itemID=7001   (208 words)

biblicalreflections's Xanga Site Protestantism was founded on the principle of Sola Scriptura — the Bible and the Bible alone. However, sola scriptura demands that the Bible becomes the hermeneutic - the lens - for determining data from every other source. Departing from sola scriptura, Liberal Adventists have unabashedly adopted a four-prong methodology. www.xanga.com /biblicalreflections   (1533 words)

Catholic Community Forum Discussion Groups - Question (Sola Scriptura) Most other arguments with protestants that believe Sola Scriptura, run up against multiple other verses that support their view, especially when "The Word of God" is taken to mean explicitly just the Bible itself, which is a common error. I think the correct definition of Sola Scriptura is a teaching that the Holy Bible is the final authority for all matters of faith. This is in contrast to Prima scriptura, which holds that the Bible is the primary source of doctrine, but that understanding can be improved by reference to other sources. www.catholic-forum.com /forums/showthread.php?t=6277   (4669 words)

Evangelical Fire Reading the fathers through Roman Catholic spectacles surely would lead one to believe that Sola Scriptura was unheard of in the early church, which is what happened to me when I first examined the doctrine. Webber argues that Sola Scriptura (or at least its infantile form) was replaced by the current Roman Catholic position regarding authority (Scripture + Tradition + Magisterium) during the Medieval church. I highly doubt Sola Scriptura is something a pesky German monk concocted in his spare time. evangelicalfire.blogspot.com   (2777 words)

Gay Christian View Singapore - From Luther to Gay activists Hence the Wesleyan Quadrilateral is useful as long we have Prima Scriptura. Prima scriptura is a doctrine in Christian theology that says the Bible is "first" or "above all" sources of divine revelation. Implicitly, this view acknowledges that, besides the Bible, there are other guides for what a Christian should believe, and how he should live, such as the created order, traditions, charismatic gifts, mystical insight, angelic visitations, conscience, common sense, the views of experts. www.psa91.com /bible.htm   (2351 words)

Slice of Laodicea: Justin Baeder: "Scripture Never Says It Is the Sole Authority..."   (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-09-18) In fact, no one believes in sola scriptura unless they were converted and remain in prison with only a bible, and have never had any contact with Christians. The two ideas discussed here are called "sola scriptura" and "prima scriptura". "Prima scriptura" says that while the Bible is the PRIMARY source for faith and doctrine, other guides can also apply in a secondary way. www.sliceoflaodicea.com /archives/2006/01/quote_of_the_da_29.php   (1378 words)

Reform the Romans: Sola Scriptura Pt. II Your Part II of Sola Scriptura is filled with the same rhetoric as Part I, while you still have not addressed any of the challenges raised by me or my fellow Catholics. However, the problem with Sola Scriptura is that it proves itself wrong--you claim to accept the Bible as your sole authority, while this belief itself is not taught in the Bible. Since sola scriptura originates with Luther and since the doctrine by its very nature would presume that IT is specifically taught in the Bible, you bear the burden of proof. reformromans.blogspot.com /2005/10/sola-scriptura-pt-ii.html   (4388 words)

RE: The Logic of SS   (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-09-18) Among Sola Scriptura Christians, either those who believe that baptism is necessary are wrong or those who believe that it is unnecessary are wrong. Scriptura Plus (as I use it) is the idea that Scripture is not the ONLY final authority. While it was Martin Luther who brought Sola Scriptura to the world, claiming that all had the authority to correctly interpret, it was also Luther who vehemently denied that same authority to anyone who disagreed with him or his interpretations. forums.solidgospel.com /m_1338848/mpage_8/tm.htm   (8722 words)

[No title]   (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-09-18) One of the rallying cries of his movement was sola Scriptura (translated in English as 'the Bible alone'). One rallying cry for followers of Martin Luther was the expression sola fide (faith alone). It appears that Martin Luther truly preferred the concept of prima Luther and not sola Scriptura when it came to doctrine. members.aol.com /cogwriter/luther.htm   (1974 words)

The Shape of Sola Scriptura -- Chapter 1 - www.ezboard.com Most importantly, they are trying valiantly to assert sola scriptura and the authority of the church, and that is a big step in the right direction. Since prima scriptura is a position gaining support in theological circles, there is not really a need to trumpet the single source theory. The best you can do is prima scriptura or material sufficiency and neither of these constitute sola scriptura. www.crowhill.net /ss/mathison/ss-chap1.html   (11028 words)

True Sola Scriptura leads to perfect unity! Oral traditions and creeds cause division! So the Roman Catholic and Orthodox observation that "sola Scriptura churches" differ in doctrine is invalid because they are not really "sola Scriptura" churches since they use creeds, councils and statements of faith in addition to the Bible to determine doctrine. We classify all the Protestants as "pseudo sola Scriptura" since although they claim to operate under the principle of sola Scriptura, in practice they are as tradition and creed bound as Roman Catholic and Orthodox. We note that the almost all of the "Independent" groups listed in table 1-5 are "pseudo sola Scriptura" who use creeds and claim direct inspiration from the Holy Spirit for determining truth. www.bible.ca /sola-scriptura-anti-refuted-division.htm   (2903 words)

James Akin After all, a man and a woman are not unequally yoked just because the wife is lower than her husband on one level. The only question is how we can identify Apostolic Traditions, and that role is fulfilled by the Church, who as the living Bride of Christ continues to recognize and identify to her children the authentic voice of her husband. To show sola scriptura is binding now, even though it was not binding then, the critic will have to show the New Testament teaches there will be a massive paradigm shift at the end of the apostolic age. www.ewtn.com /library/ANSWERS/INSPIR.HTM   (1349 words)

Catholic Answers Forums - If the Bible is sufficient...   (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-09-18) I understand that many Christian denominations profess a belief in Sola Scriptura (a belief that the Bible is sufficient by itself for the instruction of the faithful). Sola Scriptura is not to say that the Apostles and their successors didn't preach. I don't mean to pick on Hank, but merely to pont out that Sola Scriptura does not seem to be a viable means of determining truth, as is evidenced by those who profess the belief in it. forum.catholic.com /showthread.php?t=1039   (4277 words)

The Sufficiency of Scripture and the Church Fathers (particularly, St. Athanasius & the Trinity)   (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-09-18) The whole sola scriptura debate only became possible when a sizeable number of influential Christians began proclaiming that the bishops gathered in Council, in communion with Rome, had seriously erred in interpreting Scripture over a period of several centuries. Entire books are written about the Fathers' supposed belief in sola Scriptura, when in fact they are merely expressing their belief in material sufficiency of Scripture, and its inspiration and sufficiency to refute heretics and false doctrine generally. Scriptura, but neither was there a doctrine of traditio sola.'. ic.net /~erasmus/RAZ319.HTM   (12043 words)

Dialogue on Sola Scriptura & the Church Fathers, Pt. II   (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-09-18) This is clearly related to sola Scriptura since one of the components of that view is the ability of the individual to self-interpret without any necessary aid of Church or Tradition (also closely-related are the concepts of self-authentication of Scripture and the perspicuity, or clearness of Scripture). Assuming that document B is contradicting sola scriptura, we have to conclude that the church father in question was inconsistent. Therefore, the council is not their 'rule,' but sola Scriptura and individualistic private judgment is. The individual is the final arbiter. ic.net /~erasmus/RAZ132.HTM   (14342 words)

Books In Review: Losing Our Moral Theology Thus, Scripture never exists sola; rather, it is understood and interpreted via the collective wisdom of the Christian church in all ages and communions. For this reason, it is more appropriate to speak of prima scriptura—which more adequately represents historic Christian orthodoxy while preserving Scripture’s normative place in doing moral theology. Without denying the place that Protestant reformers occupy in evangelical faith, it should be said that classic Christian teaching, whether in the realm of doctrine or ethics, is best defined not against the backdrop of the sixteenth century, but rather in the light of the broader apostolic tradition. www.leaderu.com /ftissues/ft9901/reviews/charles.html   (1887 words)

[No title]   (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-09-18) What sola scriptura really means is not "Scripture alone" but "Scripture above all." "Scripture first" (prima scriptura) would be a better motto for the Protestant view of Scripture as the ultimate source and norm for Christian faith and practice. Rarely does this take the form of explicit repudiation of sola scriptura; instead it often appears in claims that the ancient, ecumenical consensus of the church fathers, creeds and councils, the early church's "rule of faith," or "the apostolic tradition" handed on by the church fathers represents the inviolably authoritative interpretation of Scripture. The trouble with traditionalism is that it tends to place the theological consensus of the ancient, undivided church (or some interpretation of it) on the same authoritative plane with Scripture and thus undercuts the church's ability to reform itself by appeal to God's Word. www.fsbc-okc.org /sermons-tradition.htm   (2312 words)

Spirited disagreement in Jacksonville - News - MSNBC.com   (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-09-18) Sola scriptura is one of five important slogans of the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Although there is no agreed-upon technical definition among Protestants, it generally meant that Scripture, as interpreted by the individual believer, is the only inerrant rule for deciding issues of faith and morals. The intention of the Reformation was to "correct" the Roman Catholic Church by appeal to the uniqueness of the Bible's authority, and to reject Christian tradition as a source of original authority alongside the Bible or in addition to the Bible. www.msnbc.msn.com /id/13410794   (684 words)

Matt's Third Rebuttal: Feb. 1,1998 The Catholic Church puts the bible first, Prima Scriptura, She is under the bible. The concepts are in the bible as is succession (in contrast to Sola Scriptura). Sola Scriptura causes Protestantism to divide on so many issues central to salvation that it can not possibly be the way Jesus established for his people to have a relationship with him. matt1618.freeyellow.com /matt03.html   (3544 words)

The Doctrine Of Sola Scriptura Is Not Taught Anywhere In The Bible - TheologyWeb Campus The Doctrine Of Sola Scriptura Is Not Taught Anywhere In The Bible The early-medieval church supported an unarticulated and undeveloped doctrine of sola Scriptura. The Scripture, according to the Reformers, is the standard (norm) against which all other sources for theology must be judged, but this standard cannot be ultimately judged by them. www.theologyweb.com /campus/showthread.php?t=67853&page=4   (3169 words)

[2000: March] Re: Sources for Mary/Phil S. However, your term "prima scriptura" would fairly accurately describe the views of more traditional persuasions. the arrogance of "sola scriptura" insists that we had to wait for the more enlightened 16th century reformers to give the Bible its proper due. "Sola scriptura" is too often simply a springboard to justify idividual interpretations and self indulgent hermaneutical principles. omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu /mailing_lists/CLA-L/2000/03/0743.php   (201 words)

Christian Unity and the Role of Authority: Some Reformed Protestants like to claim that their version of Sola Scriptura merely recognizes that Scripture is the only inspired authority and is thus the final authority. In asserting this, they will sometimes claim that the Church Fathers' position [arguably a form of "Prima Scriptura"] is synonymous with their beliefs. In the process they cite many of the same passages to defend Sola Scriptura that the Arians who denied the Trinity did in the fourth and fifth centuries claiming that only Scripture was to be the "final authority" (Ecc. matt1618.freeyellow.com /unity2.html   (2987 words)

Theopedia:Ask a question/Archive 1 - Theopedia In simplist terms, and in the ways I have seen it used: Sola Scriptura maintains the Scriptures are the sole source of doctrine, while Prima Scriptura maintains Scripture is the primary (but not sole) source of doctrine. To me, this is reminiscent of the Wesleyan Quadrilateral where authority is based on a consideration of (1) Scripture (2) Tradition (3) Reason and (4) Experience, although Scripture is "primary". Also I have heard Roman Catholics profess holding to Prima Scriptura, but there is ample evidence in their official teaching that Scripture is subject to the magisterium of the Roman Church. www.theopedia.com /Theopedia:Ask_a_question/Archive_1   (6065 words)

Third Rebuttal of the Riggs-Lopez Debate - By Michael Lopez If only one assumption has not been true at any time for the last 2000 years, Sola Scriptura can not possibly be the means that God established. Scripture is an infallible guide, but for us to understand its meaning Jesus established one church with promises the gates of hell shall never prevail against his church (Mt. 16:18). We have seen numerous reasons why Sola Scriptura is impossible and unbiblical (not an exhaustive list by any means). mywebpages.comcast.net /davidriggs01/lopez4.htm   (3460 words)

My Two Cents » Blog Archive » Carnality Today Finally, I believe that your “prima Scriptura” position is actually leading you to beliefs that are not just extra-biblical, but our actually unbiblical. (The “prima scriptura” teaching Roman Catholic Church leads it to the same result.) The point is, it seems that your being open to an “all truth is God’s truth” position (assuming that’s an accurate description of what you believe) is actually allowing you to approve of things that are explicity condemned by Scripture. Yes, I find spiritual edification in places other than the Bible, but the Bible is and has always been the light by which I see the truths in the world that are rooted in the God of all truth. mytwocents.wordpress.com /2006/03/07/carnality-today   (2865 words)

The Doctrine Of Sola Scriptura Is Not Taught Anywhere In The Bible - TheologyWeb Campus   (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-09-18) The topic is about Sola Scriptura, which last I checked means one gets their doctrine only from Scripture. The objection is the authority that is given to tradition in relationship to scripture. If one holds to a position of Sola Scriptura which means "Scripture is the only authority on doctrine", then practices like prayers to the saints or apostolic succession will not be considered as credible as what can be found in the Bible alone. www.theologyweb.com /campus/showthread.php?t=67853&page=4   (2788 words)

Letters (This Rock: July/August 1995) Palm also correctly points out that the early Church did not rely on Scripture alone to counter heresy but relied instead on the "rule of faith" that consisted of certain interpretations of Scripture and apostolic oral tradition. Calvin, for example, argued in an exchange with Jacob Cardinal Sadleto that it was the Roman Church that departed from the ancient faith and that the Reformers were simply trying to restore this faith to the Church. Calvin's position would better be characterized as prima scriptura (Scripture first) rather than sola scriptura. www.catholic.com /thisrock/1995/9507ltrs.asp   (2276 words)

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