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Topic: Primitive Quendian

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	Primitive Elvish - where it all began
		True, the sound-changes that separate Primitive Quendian from classical High-Elven are so tidy and straightforward that a speaker of Quenya might, with a little training, have been able to understand the primitive language without actually "learning" it as a foreign tongue.
		This is the language of the original Eldar as distinct from the Avari, the tongue developed from Primitive Quendian during the two and a half centuries the March from Cuiviénen to the sea lasted, and hence the last common ancestor of Quenya and Sindarin.
		In the primitive language, the stem and the ending are usually easy to distinguish, while the border between them is often blurred by sound-changes in the later languages.
	www.fortunecity.com /rivendell/ultima/227/primelv.htm (16991 words)

	Primitive Quendian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
		Tolkien's fictional universe of Middle-earth, Primitive Quendian is the proto-language of the Quendi, or Elves, which they spoke soon after their Awakening.
		Primitive Quendian split into Common Eldarin and the many Avari languages.
		The Etymologies published in The Lost Road and Other Writings and also later etymological essays often derived terms common to Eldarin languages to Primitive Quendian bases, and a list of some Primitive Quendian words is given in an essay Quendi and Eldar (in The War of the Jewels).
	en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Primitive_Quendian (113 words)

	OLDSIND
		Old Sindarin is the last stop before (Classical) Sindarin in the evolution from Primitive Quendian to mature Grey-elven (between PQ and OS we have Common Eldarin and Common Lindarin).
		In primitive words, we generally prefer the spelling j for the sound of y as in English you (Tolkien's spelling is inconsistent, and sometimes it was even altered by the transcriber).
		The primitive forms must be ñgurû, ñgurtû; it is not at all clear where the t in the latter form comes from (this would be the sole attestation of a derivational ending -tû).
	www.uib.no /People/hnohf/oldsind.htm (17387 words)

	KMC Forums - Ilkorin
		The Primitive Quendian form is given as atar, that must be seen simply as an extension of the stem itself.
		The primitive word was evidently an adjective with the same meaning as the stem: "rushing", later used as a noun "rushing (one)" and applied to an animal.
		The primitive form is undoubtedly meant to be jarnâ (yarnâ) with the common adjectival ending -nâ (sometimes used to derive passive participles); the primitive word must clearly have implied "bloody" or "blood-red".
	www.killermovies.com /forums/f34/t300244.html (2971 words)

	[No title]
		It may be similar in sound to the primitive word that produced Q }{\b\lang1033 pusta}{\lang1033, but here the double }{\b\lang1033 tt}{\lang1033 occurs as a medial fortification of the final consonant of the stem }{\i\lang1033 PUT}{\lang1033.
		In Primitive Quendian, the plural of \'a4}{\b\lang1033 swanda}{\lang1033 "sponge" must have been }{ \b\lang1033 swanda\'ee}{\lang1033 or (later?) }{\b\lang1033 swandai}{\lang1033, but when \'a4}{\b\lang1033 swanda}{\lang1033 was reduced to }{\b\lang1033 swand}{\lang1033 in CE, its plural was altered to }{\b\lang1033 swand\'ee}{\lang1033 (still reflected in Q }{\i\lang1033 hwandi}{\lang1033) \endash as if this were a normal consonant stem.
		This is also seen in later sources; in WJ:361 a certain Primitive Quendian verb is quoted as \'a4}{ \b\fs20\lang1033 hek-t\'e2}{\fs20\lang1033, but in WJ:363 we have \'a4}{\b\fs20\lang1033 hek-ta}{\fs20\lang1033 instead \endash plainly an error, whether the author or the transcriber is to be blamed.
	www.ambar-eldaron.com /ardalambion/qevolution.rtf (8363 words)

	Doriathrin
		The primitive form is given as b'rethâ (presumably for even older *beréthâ, before the loss of the unaccented vowel); when used to form nouns, the ending -â usually denotes inanimates.
		In later sources, Tolkien reconstructed the primitive version of the sound in question as h rather than 3; for instance, Quenya ho, hó- "from" is derived from a stem HO in WJ:368, while the same word was derived from 3O, 3Ô in the Etymologies (see LR:360).
		A primitive form is given as *liñwi, showing nasal infixion; the ñ has dropped out in the Doriathrin derivative, but the preceding vowel has apparently been lengthened in compensation.
	www.ambar-eldaron.com /ardalambion/doriath.htm (8237 words)

	The Grey Havens - Middle-earth: Primitive Elvish - where it all began
		Kwende "elf" is derived from a stem KWENE by "primitive fortification of the median n > nd " (WJ:360).
		Tolkien explains that Lindâ "Linda, Teler-elf" is derived from the primitive stem LIN by "reinforcement of the medial N and adjectival -â " (WJ:382).
		According to WJ:363, there was "some evidence" that variation between D and L occurred in Primitive Quendian, "a notable example being de /le as pronominal elements in the 2nd person".
	tolkien.cro.net /mearth/tolklang/primelv.html (18248 words)

	Primitive Elvish - where it all began
		We notice that ignoring the sibilant s, the primitive language had no other spirant than 3, and even this sound Tolkien often reconstructs as h instead (in LR:360, the original stem yielding Quenya ho "from" is given as 3Ô, while in WJ:368 the corresponding stem is given as HO).
		If so, such palatalized and labialized sounds could be counted as independent phonemes in Primitive Quendian; yet their absence from the table of primitive consonants in VT46:28 may indicate that we are really dealing with consonant clusters ending in j and w.
		Perhaps v as a distinct phoneme in Primitive Quendian was just a passing idea; it does not occur in the table in VT46:28.
	www.uib.no /People/hnohf/primelv.htm (17611 words)

	Primitive, - primitive technology, flintknapping, atlatls, history, firemaking (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-10-13)
		Primitive cultures maintained a profound understanding of the basic elements required to sustain
		Usually called Primitive Quendian, it was the ultimate ancestor of all Elvish True, the sound-changes that separate Primitive Quendian from classical
		Primitive peoples do not live through memories, and generally have no Sahlins (1972) spoke of this eloquently: "The world's most primitive people have
	dealtutor.com /datt/primitive.htm (347 words)

	Primitive (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-10-13)
		Primitive Survival Skills, Stone Age Technology, Friends of the Society of Primitive Technology, Workshops and Classes, Anthropology, Archaeology,.
		The Primitive Baptist Library of Carthage, Illinois, was organized Master Degree Program in June.
		Usually called Primitive Quendian, it was the ultimate ancestor of all.
	primitives.zzro.org /primitive.htm (332 words)

	I Lam Arth
		primitive root vowels are also shifted - most notably, primitive -u- appears as -o- in Sindarin, but this shift is not carried out under some conditions, one of them being if the cluster -nc follows the -u-.
		An example is the root MÔ, the primitive CE: môta yielding Q: móta- and N: *muda- (attested is the infinitive mudo) (to labour) (LR:373).
		However, the scenario of verb conjugation emerging from the attested examples in the Etymologies and elsewhere shows a rich pattern of subdivisions of these main classes; there are several different ways of forming the various tenses and obviously some older forms have been replaced by analogies with others.
	sindarin.weet.us /verbs.html (6576 words)

	Ilkorin
		The primitive Common Eldarin genitive ending was -hô andgt; -ô, derived from an "ancient adverbial element" HO meaning "away, from, from among" (WJ:368).
		It would be tempting to believe that this is the cognate of Quenya atto, primitive *attô, evidently the stem ATA with a medial fortification t andgt; tt and the masculine ending -ô.
		Compare words like Balthor, erdh, salch (but contrast the word tolda andlt; tultâ-, where lt mysteriously becomes ld instead of lth; perhaps this is because this cluster lt occurred already at the very oldest stage, whereas the other combinations here listed arose only later, as a result of syncopes or compounding).
	www.killermovies.com /forums/archive/index.php/t-300244-ilkorin.html (2954 words)

	Languages - Tolkien Gateway
		Although the Elvish languages Sindarin and Quenya are the most famous and the most mature languages of those that Tolkien invented for his mythology, they are by no means the only ones.
		They belong to a family of Elvish dialects, that originate in Common Eldarin, the language common to all Eldar, which in turn originates in Primitive Quendian, the common root of Eldarin and Avarin languages.
		In addition to that, there is a separate language family that is spoken by Men, the most prominent member of which was Westron (derived from the Númenórean speech Adûnaic) or the "Common speech" of the peoples of The Lord of the Rings.
	tolkiengateway.net /wiki/Languages (1074 words)

	Probable Errors in the Etymologies
		Similarly, Sindarin tamno- "to knock" from TAM should evidently read tammo-; the primitive* form is given as *tambâ-, and b cannot become n in Sindarin.
		Sindarin rhinn "circular" under RIN should probably have been rhenn if it is a cognate of Quenya rinda (primitive* *rindâ, not given; in Sindarin, the â would cause the stem vowel i to become e by umlaut before the final vowel was lost).
		We have no other examples of initial Primitive Quendian Ñ (as opposed to ÑG), so we cannot be sure how it developed in later Elvish tongues.
	xoomer.alice.it /gianluca_comastri/ardalambion/errors.htm (1882 words)

	Are Goldogrin and Qenya “primitive”?
		This name is in fact derived from the earliest work on the mythology: The Fall of Gondolin, composed in 1916–17, in which the Elvish language that ultimately became that of the type called Sindarin was in a primitive and unorganized form, and its relation with the High-elven type (itself very primitive) was still haphazard.
		Fortunately, this is a question we are now in a position to answer for ourselves, since almost all of Tolkien’s earliest linguistic writings on Qenya and Goldogrin have been published — and the answer seems clearly to be no.
		Certainly the description of Goldogrin being unorganized might refer more to the original manuscript of the Gnomish Lexicon, which is highly chaotic indeed, than to the actual language itself; even the greatly improved organization of the edited text in Parma 11 lacks the immediate clarity of the Qenya Lexicon, with its root-followed-by-derivatives mode of presentation.
	www.elvish.org /Tengwestie/editorials/20040404.phtml (746 words)

	The Grey Havens - Middle-earth: Old Sindarin - between Primitive Elvish and Grey-elven
		Old Sindarin is the last stop before Sindarin in the evolution from Primitive Quendian to mature Grey-elven (between PQ and OS we have Common Eldarin and Common Lindarin).
		The Old Sindarin plural ending was -i, directly descended from Primitive Quendian *-î and cognate with Quenya -i : boron "faithful vassal" pl. boroni, toron "brother" pl. toroni.
		There is the word thoronen, said to be the "gen.sg." of the word for "eagle"; the nominative is not given, but it may have been *thoron (just as in Sindarin).
	tolkien.cro.net /mearth/tolklang/oldsind.html (2395 words)

	Quenya Phonological Tables
		Schematic overview of the phonological evolution from Primitive Quendian to Third Age Quenya
		It also assumes having read (or being in the process of reading) his study on the Evolution of Primitive Elvish to Quenya, from which most of the data here has been extracted, yet without his excellent explanations, which are fundamental to understanding the matter fully.
		Another article I recommend is Helge Fauskanger's 'Primitive Elvish: where it all began'.
	www.xs4all.nl /~xelag/quenya_phonetic_tables.html (4542 words)

	Telerin - Ardaquenta
		Primitive Quendian -> Common Eldarin -> Common Telerin -> Telerin
		There is also a close relation with Quenya.
		The most interesting aspect of Telerin is that it retains many phonological aspects that Primitive Quendian had.
	www.wildfiregames.com /tla/wiki/index.php?title=Telerin (155 words)

	Lord of the Rings Fanatics Library \| The Languages of Middle-earth (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-10-13)
		Valarin, the languagues of Oromë, Aulë, Melko and the Valarindi, Orkish, Dwarvish, Primitive Quendian, (Common) Eldarin, Lemberin, Laiquendian, Danian, Taliska, Hvendi, Mork, Lindarin, Qenya, (Exilic) Noldorin, Telerin, Ilkorin, Doriathrin, Falathrin, Kornoldorin (Korolambe, Old Noldorin), Ossiriandeb, plus dialects and various tongues of Men.
		The Elves awaken at Kuiviénen and also quickly start developing a language, inventing words they deem beautiful and fitting for the named things.
		This is what we call the Primitive Quendian - not being primitive at all (but in fact very complex!), but just the first and basic Elvish language (e.g.
	www.lotrlibrary.com /languages/melanguages.asp (1341 words)

	wwWeb Library \| Archiv für Sindarin-Grammatik \| Sindarin word reconstruction HowTo (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-10-13)
		Stems or primitive roots are the basic building blocks of Elvish word derivation.
		While they themselves are as such not words in any Elvish language, any word in Elvish seems to be formed from a (modified) stem with the optional addition of a derivational suffix.
		This ending is often seen to describe the result of the action given by the root, cf.
	wwweb-library.net /wbb2/thread.php?threadid=3015 (5643 words)

	FAQ
		They are two different but related languages, since they both descented from the common ancient language of the Elves, Primitive Elvish (you can find it also as Common Elvish, Primitive Quendian or an other similar form) which was the common language of the Elves who awoke in Cuiviénen (cf.
		Deriving words by affixes: The word for "dynasty" was needed and someone invented the word *hilyale from the verb hilya- "follow, succeed" and the ending -le which forms verbs to nouns (we know for example hantale "thanking", nurtale "hiding" from Tolkien's work).
		Deriving words from primitive roots: We know the primitive Elvish root YUK which derives words having to do with "use"..
	www.elvish.org /gwaith/faq.htm (5188 words)

	Are High Elves Finno-Ugric?
		Like all other Elvish languages, Quenya is descended from the proto-language known as Primitive Quendian.
		Spoken Quenya is also likely to sound unfamiliar because of its different placement of stress: it follows a rule similar to that of Latin, while Finnish always has stress on the first syllable.
		, is arranged around "primitive stems" from which all words are derived.
	www.sci.fi /~alboin/finn_que.htm (2838 words)

	Old Sindarin
		(In one case, though, a long final vowel seems to persist in Old Sindarin, primitive magnâ "skilled" yielding the unchanged form magnâ; this is probably an error, by Tolkien or the transcriber, for magna.)
		In some cases the plural forms of nouns preserve original final consonants lost in the singular: nele "tooth", pl. neleki (stem NÉL-EK), oro pl. oroti "mountain" (stem ÓROT), skhapa "shore" pl. skhapati (primitive *skhyapat-), pele "fenced field", pl. pelesi (later pelehi) (stem PEL(ES)), thele "sister", pl.
		This is because Old Sindarin sometimes shifted original long â to ó (like ndâkô "warrior" > ndóko), while the diphthong ai was unchanged (like gaia "dread", primitive stem *gais-).
	www.fortunecity.com /rivendell/ultima/227/oldsind.htm (2388 words)

	Noldor, Morgoth, Turgon, first, title, second, could, Maedhros, ships, published, Valar, Silmarillion, Second - Noldor (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-10-13)
		They were also the ones who spoke the language that later became Sindarin (then called Gnomish).
		The spelling Ã‘oldor rather than Noldor is used in later writings, but even in earlier versions the name Noldo came from a Primitive Quendian stem *NGolodo, which led to NGoldo (Ã‘oldo) in Quenya and 'Golodh' in Sindarin.
		The posthumously published and edited version of The Silmarillion uses the "Noldor" form.
	www.alphasearch.org /directory/Noldor.html (1893 words)

	Orbis : Homepage (Site not responding. Last check: 2007-10-13)
		So from the time Elves awoke until the Separation, well over five hundred years elapsed, ample time for developing a complete language-but still not very long by Elvish standards.
		The root language of the Elves is Primitive Quendian from which came Common Eldarin which divereged into two main lines when the Eldar were sundered into the three principal races: the Vanyar and Nordor who spoke Quenya, and the Teleri who spoke Sindarin.
		This would be the language spoken by the Elves that followed Oromë and embarked on the March from Cuiviénen to the Sea, or rather the language they developed during the March.
	aegis.ateneo.net /fted/tolkientalk.htm (4133 words)

	Quenya - English Dictionaire
		Cermië seventh month of the year, "July" (Appendix D) certa "rune" (pl. certar given), adapted from Sindarin certh (an inherited Quenya form of primitive kirtê would have been cirtë).
		sundo a Quendian consonantal "base"; sundóma *"base-vowel", the determinant vowel of a base (Christopher Tolkien gives the example KAT, which stem has the sundóma A; the stem TALAT has the sundóma repeated; in derivative forms the sundóma might be placed before the first consonant; e.g.
		The true Quenya descendant of primitive *kyelepê is tyelpë, but the Telerin form telpë was more common, "for the Teleri prized silver above gold, and their skill as silversmiths was esteemed even by the Noldor" (UT:266).
	hometown.aol.com /annunheled7/myhomepage/lotr.html (14541 words)

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